On Censorship and Free Speech in Neopets

[Poppecorn]

I strongly believe that TNT is overly harsh in terms of what they deem to be 'bad words'. I have received a warning for saying 'cigarette' (Not encouraging the usage of that substance but whilst chatting to a neofriend) and a neofriend of mine has received a warning for saying 'drink' - as in DRINKING TEA. She has sent a ticket and received a reply - they acknowledge it's a mistake, but refuse to remove the warning. I understand TNT's concerns - any minor could be influenced by the above words in a more unacceptable context - but I truly believe they are overly harsh, ESPECIALLY considering that Neopets is made up largely not of young children, but of young adults and even middle aged women. I talked about this demographics/freedom of speech topic on the Neoboards, but the post was quickly deleted. :(

And it would also be great if they would let us have unscripted chat in Key Quest, but I don't think that's going to happen any time soon, considering how freely they give out warnings for 'bad words' and they freeze everything suspicious

It's pretty much Oceania in 1984 - the Inner Party is TNT, the Outer Party is Neopets users and the Prolls? (Forgot what they're called) are guests to the site.

:sick02: :sick01: :skull:

[AllTimeMarr]

Well it's not nice to not remove the warning for the tea-drinking part :<

 

I mostly neo-mail with Dutch friends though, and I think our Dutch TNT actually does note the difference between an alcoholic drink and some soda, haha.

[.Brianna.]

I definitely agree with what you're saying in some terms (love the 1984 reference BTW - that's my favorite book!). I think the demographic of players has changed significantly since those rules were put into place, or more accurately the demographic of players has aged. I do think that TNT can be too harsh when it comes to filtering, but I understand why these rules were instated initially. Like many areas of the site I think you've simply identified something that needs some TLC.

[Poppecorn]

I definitely agree with what you're saying in some terms (love the 1984 reference BTW - that's my favorite book!). I think the demographic of players has changed significantly since those rules were put into place, or more accurately the demographic of players has aged. I do think that TNT can be too harsh when it comes to filtering, but I understand why these rules were instated initially. Like many areas of the site I think you've simply identified something that needs some TLC.

I agree with you agreeing to me, but what is TLC?

[.Brianna.]

I agree with you agreeing to me, but what is TLC?

Tender Loving Care ^_^ It just needs some attention and improvement!

[Poppecorn]

I think it might need more than that. If it's between two adults - neomail, that is, they should be allowed to use all non-swearing words regardless of the context (barring the truly inappropriate like the selling of the body for money etc). And Key Quest needs to have an unscripted mode for players above the age of 18 and which have not ever received a formal warning.

[nbbug132]

Hi there!

I would just like to point out that TNT is *not* violating your freedom of speech. Freedom of Speech prevents the government and other official regulatory bodies from censoring your speech, but does not affect the rules of private businesses.

When you create an account on Neopets you agree to their Terms of Service and Rules and Guidelines. Under these you agree to their limitations on your speech. They can't violate something that you have willingly given up when you agree to play on the site. ^^;

As for adult content on Neopets, I don't ever really see that happening due to their family-friendly image. Personally, I've never had much of an issue with the filters or warnings as I understand that there are other places I can go to discuss content that is not permitted on Neopets. Also, I hate chatting during Key Quest, so that's a moot point. I wish they'd remove that chat altogether.

[Shelley]

I can see why these strict filters have been put in place. I mean it is technically a children's site regardless of the large portion of adult players. We all signed up and continued to play on this site knowing that. When I started playing my mom was very concerned about being able to access the boards and talk to strangers. It was very comforting for her to see the rules the site had in place especially when it came to filters. There's not many sites that are as safe as neopets out there for pre-teens.

 

I don't know why you would need to talk about cigarettes on neopets but I understand how the "drink" warning must have been frustrating. I would be upset with that one.

 

I don't personally have much frustration with filters. It can be annoying not knowing what hidden word is stopping your neomail from being sent but I've managed. I just know to use other words in place of "skills" or "grape" for example. If I want to chat more freely, I come here :)

 

It would be nice to see them update the filters though. I think they need a bit of a re-vamp. Such as your "drink" incident, it's not fair to have to tiptoe around innocent words. I don't talk to anyone while playing KQ anyways so I'm indifferent toward unscripted chat.

 

I am always nervous about warnings with big brother *cough* I mean TNT (or their software) watching every move we make. But they do have good intentions.

[wolfponies]

They really need to see the filters over cuz right now it's a big joke. Mails and boards are only available to people in the age of 13+. The filters should thus be configured to prevent language inappropriate to a 13 year old. Right now the filters prevent so much that the language is friendly to a little baby which doesn't go hand in hand with neo's target group.

When it comes to redirecting people off neo, both the filters and TNT fail horribly. Why is it for example ok to redirect to Facebook while Skype results in a temporary silence? Why does TNT consider it alright to link and speak about TDN while silencing anyone who mentions TDNF?

I believe that different people in neo's staff checking flagged mails, posts etc. judge differently. It is, in my opinion, time to rewrite both the Terms of Agreement and the board rules. But then again it's also about time to fix LC...it's just that some things will never happen.

[Shelley]

well a lot of the filtering is to prevent conversations of a sexual manner, violence, drugs, politics, ect. Not something meant for neopets, or 13 year olds. It is really annoying how filters can pick up the hidden words, even words within neopets items themselves like "grape slushie" (is that even an item? o.o I just made that up). So maybe there's something to fix in that regard.

 

redirecting someone to a facebook profile is a big NO. You can talk about the neopet fb page but you cannot give out personal information, especially a personal website/blog. I feel like in this age people are very quick to give out personal information via the internet without realizing the potential danger. So I'm glad neo is keeping kids safe. TDNF I assume would be a problem because it's not an "official fansite" as opposed to TDN. Also TNT doesn't have control with the filters over here

 

also see the neopets "note" on the community fan sites tab..

 

"Note: Recommended fan sites may be linked to from the Neoboards, User Lookups, Neomail, etc. Certified fan sites can be discussed by name, but any links to them will be blocked except on this page."

[snowangelmidori]

I won't go into my opinions on the free speech aspect as nbbug already pretty much covered it, but as far as filters go I agree there needs to be more leniency. Censoring 'drink' is a little absurb, though I do understand censoring 'cigarette'. When it comes down to it Neopets' target demographic is children and the filters need to reflect and accomodate parent's and shareholder's concerns to maintain that family-friendly image. But given there's an aging userbase and consequent shifting demographic, it's in their best interest to accomodate both demographics which I think could be accomplished in this area with seperate filters. As in, setting the default filters as the current more strict ones and allowing an option to disable filters or select a second, less strict set if the user is 18+. Obviously this wouldn't stop younger people from just changing their ages to 18+, but in that case the responsibility shifts more from Neopets itself to the users.

 

This might seem a little off-topic but overall, I think it's not just about the filters but that Neopets really needs to broaden their target demographic in general. I don't know the exact figures, but in 2005 only 2% of users were under 8, then roughly 80% around 14 and 20% 18+. It might have gained its original traction from targeting the 8-12 age range but in just those six years it shifted to around the 14 area. From what I've seen in surveys, the userbase is now around 60% in the 20-25 demographic (though that might be more a result of the website conducting the survey's demographics than Neopet's itself, I'd estimate it's more around 40%). In any case, it's evident the userbase IS aging and if Neopets is to stay relevant, it should adapt to that. The Nickelodeon integration obligated Neopets to continue targeting children, but hopefully Jumpstart will change that. I know it's a franchise that targets children in the 3-10 demographic but it apparentely bought Neopets because of the older audience, not despite it. So here's hoping Jumpstart's intention is to simultaneously expand both their demographics and that of Neopets. Ideally, the first step in that direction being a filter overhaul.

[Batgirl]

Again, this is not a free speech issue.

 

As for the limitations they have every right to place, have i ever been surprised or frustrated? sure. most especially when i got warned for very mild things sent in a personal nm to a longtime friend. But at the same time, neopets is the only site I spend time on where I am almost completely insulated from real life concerns and issues and I value that about it tremendously. It's not as simple as what age are the players - for many older players, part of the appeal is that mental buffer zone. It's also one of the only sites many of us feel comfortable with children being on (which would change in a heartbeat if kq went to unscripted).

[hrtbrk]

Maybe I'm the minority here, but unless you are consistently trying to push the filter line... there isn't much to worry about. You can talk freely on Neopets.

If you're not breaking the rules, a filter warning isn't the end all be all. They get erased after 6 months, anyway.

It's annoying but they're put in place because a few bad seeds ruin the entire garden.

When it comes to redirecting people off neo, both the filters and TNT fail horribly. Why is it for example ok to redirect to Facebook while Skype results in a temporary silence? Why does TNT consider it alright to link and speak about TDN while silencing anyone who mentions TDNF?
I believe that different people in neo's staff checking flagged mails, posts etc. judge differently. It is, in my opinion, time to rewrite both the Terms of Agreement and the board rules. But then again it's also about time to fix LC...it's just that some things will never happen.

Except you're not allowed to direct to your own facebook page, so why would you be allowed to link to Skype? lol Of course it would be okay for them to link to their own facebook page because you are not giving out your own personal information.

You can talk about thedailyneopets, but not TDN Forums because they are on different domain names.

It's not so much that members of TNT have opposing judgement* as much as it is users not understanding the guidelines.

*And I have been a "victim" of two members of TNT having opposing judgements regarding a pet name that was caught up in the filters which resulted in a friend getting a pet returned but I did not, even though we both had the same word in our pets names.

[Rune Valentine]

I've had a few run-ins with the filter, it's a minor annoyance when you're sending a perfectly innocent NM and you get that "No bad words blah blah" warning when you're trying to send it, and for the life of you, you can't find it because you never said it! It's frustrating sometimes, but I've managed to chat openly on the NeoBoards, guild boards and NeoMails without any warnings for years now.

 

I understand that majority of the players on Neopets are adults, but the filters are in place because there are, in fact, still young teenagers out there that could be targeted by people with bad intentions. They might seem silly to you, but it's the best they can do to make sure those bad people don't get to the kids, given the amount of messages passed around each day. We can pretend those bad people don't exist or don't troll websites like Neopets, but the reality is that they're out there and given any leniency, it might put younger players in danger. There is absolutely no way to verify the real age of a person, it's so easy to put in a fake birthday. A system like that would just open up a can of worms that online predators will likely abuse.

 

No system put into place is perfect, but if you try and understand why they're there, it puts things in a different light. It would be better if the monitors put things in better context when checking out flagged messages, but I don't feel it necessarily impedes your freedom of speech.

[Coco]

While I do recognize the importance and purpose of the filters, they do tend to be inconvenient. Especially when innocent words are flagged as not-so-innocent because they contain bad words in them. A filter clean-up is vital because a normal human being should not have any problem with those words when they take the time to actually READ what is written.

[Poppecorn]

We could make TNT manually read the emails that are flagged and which lead to a warning or freezing, but...


I SAY THAT WE FORM AN UPRISING AND OVERTHROW TNT!!! We first find out their account info, lock them out, and then pass the maintenance of the site to a small group of dedicated programmers who are more liberal and forward thinking in their beliefs. Every year, we would then hold a VOTE - for all non-frozen users (It's hard to get frozen in this new Neopets) - on who becomes the new programmer (out of a batch of 100 people decided partially by Neopians and the programmers) and half are ousted and replaced (Like in the Australian Senate).

And I will be the king of this new land of Neopets, King Antino. And whoever is my right wing man will become the president/Prime Minister.

SO I SAY WE OVERTHROW THEIR AUTOCRATIC OLIGARCHY AND REPLACE IT WITH A SEMI-DEMOCRATIC CONSTITUTIONAL MONARCHY!!!

Maybe I'm the minority here, but unless you are consistently trying to push the filter line... there isn't much to worry about. You can talk freely on Neopets.

If you're not breaking the rules, a filter warning isn't the end all be all. They get erased after 6 months, anyway.

It's annoying but they're put in place because a few bad seeds ruin the entire garden.

Except you're not allowed to direct to your own facebook page, so why would you be allowed to link to Skype? lol Of course it would be okay for them to link to their own facebook page because you are not giving out your own personal information.

You can talk about thedailyneopets, but not TDN Forums because they are on different domain names.

It's not so much that members of TNT have opposing judgement* as much as it is users not understanding the guidelines.

*And I have been a "victim" of two members of TNT having opposing judgements regarding a pet name that was caught up in the filters which resulted in a friend getting a pet returned but I did not, even though we both had the same word in our pets names.

"You can talk freely on Neopets"? Blasphemy! All posts on the neoboards or private neomails with words that contain words which are considered 'bad' are blocked from being sent! And if they're not outright blocked, you are issued a warning! (Happened in my case with the word 'cigarette')

You are a minister from their propaganda section! Off with your head!


This post has been edited by a member of staff (Spritzie) because of a violation of the forum rules.
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[Ruto]

Let me say right now that if this thread continues down this topic of conversation and gets out of hand, it will be locked. Please stay on-topic and be respectful of others' opinions.

[Poppecorn]

Okay. I was just joking.

 

This post has been edited by a member of staff (Ruto) because of a violation of the forum rules.

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[hrtbrk]

I know you're JKing but technically you're supposed to be talking about Neopets on Neopets, so if you follow those guidelines, you can talk freely.

 

That said, I've talked about several surgeries, birthing stories, domestic violence, loss of family members and other things that probably shouldn't be talked about on Neo without ever receiving a warning >.>

[Poppecorn]

I know you're JKing but technically you're supposed to be talking about Neopets on Neopets, so if you follow those guidelines, you can talk freely.

 

That said, I've talked about several surgeries, birthing stories, domestic violence, loss of family members and other things that probably shouldn't be talked about on Neo without ever receiving a warning >.>

I guess, that's true to an extent. Maybe you have to receive a warning on something else before getting a warning for neomail.

[Mouseykins]

Nope not true! You can get a warning for neomails without having any previous warnings. A while ago I got a warning for discussing my life with a neofriend. No personal information or questionable subjects were being discussed so something I probably said got flagged. Haven't gotten a warning since and I use neomails frequently.

[Aquamentis12]

Isn't the language issue it in the TOS? (Not that I ever read the whole TOS. lol) But I think it's like going to someone's house who doesn't do/allow something. Like, say taking your shoes off at the door or something. You wouldn't just walk in out of the rain or something without taking your shoes off first, right? You respect that it's their place/space and that they have their rules.

 

I've seen this argument a lot on a number of sites/forums I've frequented over the years with similar policies. I've complained a few times too. And I've been warned for things I thought were benign. I think some of the words/phrasing that TNT has banned is a bit overreaching. But, to quote my younger self.. "Their house, their rules.". ;)

[nightfall8705]

Half the time, I'm more annoyed at WHICH innocent word tripped the filter than anything else. I agree that the limitations are too harsh and a bit of a joke, but what does everyone expect? Neo IS mainly a kid site. Sure, words like skill and grape and drink being blocked are ridiculous, but it is what it is. Griping about it won't change anything. Technically, you did agree to Neo's terms when you signed up.

 

Besides, writing out a long, thoughtful Neomail, only to have it shut down by a mystery word and having to figure out which word was the possible no-no word is a lot more of a hassle than sending in tickets over and over.

 

All that being said, there's way more freedom over here on TDNF. A person can always mainly talk over here. We're nice. We don't over critique everything, but you just can't take it too seriously rash if you get warned and you know you were in the wrong. In that case, you deserve being called out, so I agree with Shelley, try to avoid possible trip words all together, follow the rules the best you can, and all will be fine. :)

[Chanii]

As someone who has received warnings for benign things and watched her friends go through similar ordeals, I have to say that the censorship on Neopets is painfully strict. I totally understand where the OP and those agreeing are coming from. I've become somewhat paranoid of posting on the Neoboards or Neomailing because I'm afraid I'll receive a warning or silence for something that was simply taken out of context. TNT doesn't seem to research the circumstances in which flagged words were used at all, which is sincerely annoying. We all agreed to their terms of service when we signed up, but nowhere in the ToS did it state that we couldn't talk about drinking tea. I wouldn't believe it if I hadn't been in similar ridiculous situations myself.

 

It makes me prefer communication outside of Neo, to be honest, but it's not like you're allowed to swap emails or IM usernames. I mean, I completely understand why that's the case -- if it was my daughter playing, I wouldn't want her handing out her personal info to strangers. Ideally, parents are monitoring their children's Internet activities enough to prevent this sort of thing, but you just know if something happened the parents would blame TNT utterly. You can't trust parents to parent properly and even the best of parents miss things sometimes. It's all a pain, yeah, but I'm not inclined to totally bash on a system designed to protect children from Internet creeps. I just wish there was a way.

 

That's the thing! If you want to trash the old system, you should be willing to make suggestions as to how a different system would work. That's my opinion, anyway. >.> I would be all for a system with more freedom if it retained the security the current one has, but I can't fathom how it'd work. I might just be uncreative, though.

[dasbif]

I always use e-mail or an instant messenger to communicate with real friends about neopets or life. With neomail, it's always just neopets. Why would I want to discuss relationships, or partying, or domestic issues, or whatever there?