Let's talk about GAY MARRIAGE!

[Russ]

Oh. I didn't read the rest. I was too lazy and thought that you were stating you're own personal reasons, not objecting to mine :P

 

Anyway, I have my opinion and you guys have yours. It's obvious that I'm wording my responses too inapproriately and immaturely for this forum, and therefore to prevent it from turning into an arguement, I will not be responding anymore. Any questions/comments/complaints, PM me wih the topic subject as the PM subject. Thanks, and bye.

 

I'm sorry if this is rude but you are making yourself look horribly stupid right now.. Coming into a debate, posting your opinion, ignoring all counterpoints that anyone who disagrees with you makes and then saying "I have my opinion and you have yours" and leaving is immature, completely different from a debate and goes against the guidelines of this forum.

 

To respond to your three reasons why you oppose it (though inkt already did it with much more eloquence):

- Who cares if it doesn't fit a societal norm? Your only real point here is "People don't like it", which basically means you're saying "I don't like it because people don't like it" and that's not a valid reason to believe in anything ever.

 

- Okay, that's you. I wouldn't ever want to marry a girl, but that doesn't mean I think heterosexual marriage is stupid, pointless or shouldn't be allowed. Love is love. Just because it's not the kind of love that you can feel doesn't mean that it's any less valid.

 

- America is not functioning fine without it. In denying homosexuals the right to marry, the government is saying "Your love is not equal" and by extension "You are not equal citizens". That completely contradicts all the morals upon which this country is supposed to be based, but even besides that, it heavily contributes to the ostracism of homosexuals by society at large. Gays already get treated poorly by society enough as it is, with teen bullying/suicides being a huge epidemic that needs to be stopped, and having the government basically point to us and say "SUCKS TO BE YOU LOL" doesn't help the matter one bit.

[Piticent]

I couldnt have said it better. Its the reason I left. I obviously am in the wrong mindset for this forum, So in order to not make myself look stupider, I am no longer visiting the debate chat foum. Im done here. Plz dont quote my posts anymore so im not obligated to come back. Thx in advance

[DeadGein]

This subject doesn't really effect me personally one way or another. However, I see reason why if a gay couple want to ruin their lives with marriage that they shouldn't be allowed too. It's just really a stupid argument. I don't see why the gay community doesn't have the same rights as anyone else. I guess there are just a bunch of elderly, closed minded people in Washington who still cling to their closed minded hatred.

 

I am a straight man, who DJ's at gay events all the time. I have no problem with the gay community, and my only issue with the lesbian community is that a large majority of that community show me disrespect, and ill will because I am a man. It's just funny that our politicians have nothing better to do, than sit around and "argue" about who should be able to "marry" who. Can we say "Wasting time and tax payer dollars"?

[Welcome Back Apathy]

Well, most people here agree with me, and anyone who doesn't won't be convinced by anything I have to say. However, I would like to say a few things:

 

1) I am married to someone who happens to be of the opposite sex. Our marriage is perfectly legal and valid anywhere. We know that many people marry for money, high rank, because their parents expect them to, whatever. We wouldn't dream of making their marriages illegal. However, OUR definition of marriage is that it's a spiritual bond between two people, and the bond is based on love. Gay marriage doesn't "ruin the sanctity of marriage" for us; gay marriage BEING ILLEGAL ruins the sanctity of marriage. Because these stupid laws tell us that marriage is based on anatomy, not on love.

 

2) We were married in California. The Tuesday before we got married, Judge Vaughn Walker declared Prop 8 to be unconstitutional. That weekend, our gay best man caught the garter. YEEEEAH! Too bad nothing ever happened with that "unconstitutional" thing.

 

3) Nearly everybody who says that gay marriage should be illegal uses religion for their reason. "Marriage is a religious word!" they wail in frustration. All righty then. So it is. And you think you have the right to tell all OTHER religions what to do? "I'm perfectly fine with civil unions," they say, "but why do they have to call it marriage? If they're just after the rights, then why not just get a civil union?" Okay, I won't even go into how DOMA prevents the vast majority of the rights...yet. But some countries have the best idea:

*Take marriage completely out of the government.

*Everyone who wants to be recognized as a couple by the government needs to get a civil union.

*If people want, the civil union can be performed by your minister, making it a religious marriage as well.

It's really NOT THAT HARD.

 

4) If someone tries to tell you that gay marriage will ruin the country, tell them that gay weddings will fix the economy. Have you ever seen a gay wedding? They are FABULOUS.

 

5) And lastly, and most importantly, if you think banning gay marriage doesn't negatively affect people as much as keeping it legal does, I suggest you read this article.

http://ipinion.us/columns/?cat=42

 

I had the good fortune to volunteer at one of the benefit concerts Cathy Speck co-hosted and performed at. She is an amazing woman. To sum up the article, she is unfortunately dying of ALS (Lou Gehrig's Disease) and she has done a variety of benefits for the disease. Unfortunately, her health has deteriorated too far--if you have EVER seen anyone with ALS, you know that it's one of the most horrible diseases there is, and yes, I can say this, it is a million times worse than cancer. She can no longer perform. Her story is tragic for herself--but her wife also suffers quite a lot due to the lack of rights in the country. Their marriage is legal and upheld, but Cathy is trapped in the state because if she leaves, she can't go to a hospital and get visits from her WIFE. Her wife cannot get social security benefits the same way that straight couples do.

 

IT SUCKS, GUYS.

 

That's all.

[DeadGein]

Die-Hard Christians are the reason Gay Marriage is an issue.

 

 

Like I've said in the past, I believe Gay people have just as much right to ruin their lives with marriage as straight people :laughingsmiley:

[Zarii]

This all degenerated into an argument about religion. I thought immigrants came to America to get away from religion being involved in everything they do. Gay people are not somehow lesser humans than straight ones. There's simply no statement that can justify taking away the right to marriage and happiness. If you take religion away from it, what reason can you possibly have to prevent people who love each other from enjoying the same rights and benefits that marriage brings? There is no reason. Genetic oddities are as old as time itself. Doesn't this just remind you of Orwell's "Animal Farm"? I leave you with this quote: "All animals are equal, but some animals are more equal than others"

[Yuika]

This all degenerated into an argument about religion. I thought immigrants came to America to get away from religion being involved in everything they do.

 

America is one of the most religious industrialized countries, actually. Religion is the most important aspect of some peoples' lives here. Our last president, George Dubya, was actually quoted as saying, “No, I don't know that atheists should be considered as citizens, nor should they be considered as patriots. This is one nation under God." And most people use religion to excuse their homophobia. So...there's that.

[Welcome Back Apathy]

America is one of the most religious industrialized countries, actually. Religion is the most important aspect of some peoples' lives here. Our last president, George Dubya, was actually quoted as saying, “No, I don't know that atheists should be considered as citizens, nor should they be considered as patriots. This is one nation under God." And most people use religion to excuse their homophobia. So...there's that.

 

That's really frightening, honestly. It says in the constitution that no law is legal that respects the establishment of a religion. Yet there are laws all over the country that do specifically that. Did you know that some places in America actually have--and enact--laws saying that atheists cannot take a government office?

 

http://www.alternet.org/story/151241/10_scariest_states_to_be_an_atheist?page=1

 

Look up information on Cecil Bothwell. It's really frightening.

[Yuika]

That's really frightening, honestly. It says in the constitution that no law is legal that respects the establishment of a religion. Yet there are laws all over the country that do specifically that. Did you know that some places in America actually have--and enact--laws saying that atheists cannot take a government office?

 

http://www.alternet.org/story/151241/10_scariest_states_to_be_an_atheist?page=1

 

Look up information on Cecil Bothwell. It's really frightening.

That's a great article. My state made #5... I'm kind of disappointed. You can do better, Florida! I know that, if you'd just try, you could be number one!

 

I'd never heard of Bothwell; the article I found was horrifying. I honestly had no idea that law existed in any state. I thought it was just an unwritten rule that politicians are "good Christians" in order to get votes. I'm just going to stop there, because if I get going on this stuff I'll never stop, and I've derailed this thread enough.

[inkt]

That's a great article. My state made #5... I'm kind of disappointed. You can do better, Florida! I know that, if you'd just try, you could be number one!

 

I'd never heard of Bothwell; the article I found was horrifying. I honestly had no idea that law existed in any state. I thought it was just an unwritten rule that politicians are "good Christians" in order to get votes. I'm just going to stop there, because if I get going on this stuff I'll never stop, and I've derailed this thread enough.

 

What was the article you found? I can't seem to find one that relates.

[Yuika]

What was the article you found? I can't seem to find one that relates.

I found this article at the Huffington Post site. It's from a few years ago, so it's kind of old news, but it was news to me.

[Russ]

It really is scary how much hardcore religious people influence America. I really wish people paid attention to the First Amendment. I think the Founding Fathers would be pretty pissed if they saw how much religion has managed to get into American government. Though this doesn't really relate to the original topic and I should probably make a new one about it.

[Kaana]

To look at this from an Australian point of view, the big reason our government won't legalise gay marriage? The definition of marriage:

 

mar·riage

noun

1.a.

the social institution under which a man and woman establish their decision to live as husband and wife by legal commitments, religious ceremonies, etc.

 

That's the government's big argument. Underneath that:

 

b. a similar institution involving partners of the same gender: gay marriage.

 

So essentially, as soon as a new word is made up that describes gay marriage, tah-dah! Legalised gay marriage in Australia!

 

And if you'll believe that, you're nuttier than squirrel poop.

[April]

I have been raised Christian. So I don't understand why some people are against "gay" couples.

 

We're always told to accept others and that God loves us "all." So why is this even an issue in our religion? Just my view.

 

You can't help who you love. I know this isn't really helping the "debate" but I just find it to be very true and wanted to share it. :) Although a lot of these things have changed in Canada and America, there are many places where the little blurb, every word is still true.

 

Gay Marriage, I am all for it.

 

I am the girl kicked out of her home because I confided in my mother that I am a lesbian.

I am the sister who holds her gay brother tight, throughout the painful, tear-filled nights.

We are the parents who buried our daughter long before her time.

I am the man who died alone in the hospital because they would not let my partner of twenty-seven years into the room.

I am the foster child who wakes up with nightmares of being taken away from the two fathers who are the only loving family i ever had. I wish they could adopt me.

I am one of the lucky ones, I guess. I survived an attack that left me in a coma for three weeks, and in another year I will probably be able to walk again.

I am not one of the lucky ones. I killed myself just three weeks before graduating high school, it was just too much to bear.

We are the couple who had the realtor hang up on us when she found out we wanted to rent a one bedroom for two men.

I am the mother who is not even allowed to visit the children I bore, nursed, and raised. The court says I am an unfit mother because I now live with another woman.

I am the Domestic violence survivor who has no support system to turn to because I am male.

I am the domestic violence survivor who found the support system grow suddenly distant and cold when they found out my abusive partner is also a woman.

I am the man who died when the paramedics stopped treating me as soon as they realized that I was transsexual.

I am the man who stopped attending church, not because I dont believe, but because they closed their doors to my kind.

I am the boy who helped viciously attack my gay friend, because I didn't want my other friends to know that I was seeing him.

I am the person who has to hide what this world needs most, Love

 

I just don't understand what is wrong with being gay. I really can't even comprehend what could be wrong with it, that people are so against it.

Not many where I'm from but there was a kid that was bullied so bad for being gay that he killed himself not too far from me.

[Russ]

It's so incredibly sad to me that young people feel the only way to escape being judged for who they are is to end their lives. It's absolutely disgusting and I hope every kid who ever bullied that gay teenager remembers it for the rest of their lives, because they're all little more than murderers in my eyes.

[April]

It's so incredibly sad to me that young people feel the only way to escape being judged for who they are is to end their lives. It's absolutely disgusting and I hope every kid who ever bullied that gay teenager remembers it for the rest of their lives, because they're all little more than murderers in my eyes.

 

I agree.

I am honestly so sick of people saying they don't feel sympathy for those that end their lives.

I've suffered from depression all my life. When you get in those moments, logic escapes your brain and all you can think about is making the pain stop.

I work with people struggling with bullying and all that kind of stuff now. As I know what it feels like.

It disgusts me that people can just sit there and say it was their choice.

It was, but I can't help by feel sympathy. How can someone get so hurt and lonely they end their own life? Imagine the pain they were feeling that drove them there.

 

I agree. It is disgusting and I hope those that bully any teenager, not just gay feel guilty and remember it for the rest of their lives.

[Russ]

On a related note, a 14 year old LGBT boy named Jamey took his life about a week ago due to bullying. It pissed me off when I read about it, and I was hoping that the people who bullied him would at least feel horribly guilty about it.

 

Instead, they made fun of his sister about it at a school dance when Jamey's favorite Lady Gaga song started playing.

 

I can not continue to type a post about this because I will go into a ridiculously long string of expletives and inappropriate desires I have regarding what I would like to see done to every single person involved in this bullying.

[April]

On a related note, a 14 year old LGBT boy named Jamey took his life about a week ago due to bullying. It pissed me off when I read about it, and I was hoping that the people who bullied him would at least feel horribly guilty about it.

 

Instead, they made fun of his sister about it at a school dance when Jamey's favorite Lady Gaga song started playing.

 

I can not continue to type a post about this because I will go into a ridiculously long string of expletives and inappropriate desires I have regarding what I would like to see done to every single person involved in this bullying.

 

That is absolutely terrible.

I am in shock.

I knew our society was screwed.

I have little faith in humanity, and now I have a little less...

[Russ]

It's just so depressing to me that that can even happen. That people can be that inhumane and soulless and allow somebody to become dehumanized in their mind to the point where his death is something to be celebrated. It's incredibly depressing and just awful and I can't believe people like that exist. I wish I lived near them because I would personally go and lash out at every single one of them.

 

Watching his It Gets Better video is just awful. I wish I'd known him. This really just makes me want to stop and think about the way I treat everyone on a daily basis.

[April]

It's just so depressing to me that that can even happen. That people can be that inhumane and soulless and allow somebody to become dehumanized in their mind to the point where his death is something to be celebrated. It's incredibly depressing and just awful and I can't believe people like that exist. I wish I lived near them because I would personally go and lash out at every single one of them.

 

Watching his It Gets Better video is just awful. I wish I'd known him. This really just makes me want to stop and think about the way I treat everyone on a daily basis.

 

I just looked it up. :sad02:

I hate bullying so much. I used to be bullied.

Someone once circulated a petition saying I should kill myself.

And then when they found out how sick I was, they didn't stop they circulated one about how they wished I would die sooner.

Kids are nasty.

I guess that's why I sympathize so much. I know how much it hurts.

I just want to hug anyone that feels sad, is bullied, abused or just hurts. :(

 

The video is so depressing. :sad01_anim:

 

Besides wanting to hug anyone who feels hurt, you don't want to know what I want to do to people that make them hurt.

[Lady Lyuba]

It's just so depressing to me that that can even happen. That people can be that inhumane and soulless and allow somebody to become dehumanized in their mind to the point where his death is something to be celebrated. It's incredibly depressing and just awful and I can't believe people like that exist. I wish I lived near them because I would personally go and lash out at every single one of them.

 

Watching his It Gets Better video is just awful. I wish I'd known him. This really just makes me want to stop and think about the way I treat everyone on a daily basis.

 

It disgusts me that people act this way just because of who somebody loves. People who are raised believing that homosexuality is evil, as it was propaganda'd in the 50s, it makes them crazy, and thinking they have the right to lynch somebody because of who they are in love with.

 

I know of somebody who was murdered by his father when he came out of the closet. And other sad stories, ones so horrible I can't tell them here... :sad02:

[Welcome Back Apathy]

I just looked it up. :sad02:

I hate bullying so much. I used to be bullied.

Someone once circulated a petition saying I should kill myself.

And then when they found out how sick I was, they didn't stop they circulated one about how they wished I would die sooner.

Kids are nasty.

I guess that's why I sympathize so much. I know how much it hurts.

I just want to hug anyone that feels sad, is bullied, abused or just hurts. :(

 

The video is so depressing. :sad01_anim:

 

Besides wanting to hug anyone who feels hurt, you don't want to know what I want to do to people that make them hurt.

 

Dear April,

 

Please do your best not to die. I know I only know you over teh internetz, but I'm pretty certain that you are an asset to this planet. Those people are not an asset--you can change the last letter to an s to get what they are.

 

Also, those people need to be smacked upside the head. With nails.

 

Much love,

Karina

[April]

Dear April,

 

Please do your best not to die. I know I only know you over teh internetz, but I'm pretty certain that you are an asset to this planet. Those people are not an asset--you can change the last letter to an s to get what they are.

 

Also, those people need to be smacked upside the head. With nails.

 

Much love,

Karina

 

With nails. That sounds painful.

Don't worry. I'm not going to listen to them. They can shout insults until their voices run out.

Besides, I don't see them anymore. They just like to randomly message me on FB.

Ignoring them is easily.

0:) I'm just such an Angel!

 

I wouldn't want to make you mad for sure. o_O

[Russ]

You absolutely don't deserve any of that and I'm incredibly sorry to hear that. Those who try to bring you down only do so because they know they can not reach your heights

[AKALeenaLean]

Wouldn't gay marriage fall under the 9th amendment? I don't know if anyone has brought up the Constitution yet, or if this not just in America, but the 9th amendment would basically have the government back off of any of our rights that they can't control, like gay marriage, and a whole bunch that I won't go into.