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Desert Diplomacy Begins!


hrtbrk

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I have 9 checks on my grid, but I'll go back through and re-check the clues to see if I can sort anything else out.

 

EDIT: I went back through the clues and I think I've managed to sort out 16 checks now. But I'm not entirely certain about how I have them set up.

 

I have:

 

the items for two guilds

 

the times for all guilds

 

the methods for two guilds

 

the methods for three items

 

the times for two methods

 

the times for two items

 

.

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You should have three checks in each category except for times for guilds, where you should have five (which you do, so no worries there). Try keeping in mind the clues from August 11th and August 10th - I filled out the grid from scratch again, and I'm pretty sure those are the two that will help you here. I have some advice on the previous page about how to use the clue from August 10th, if that's where you're getting stuck.

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I considered 10 and 11 again, but when I made the assumption that I think you're leading me toward noticing, it gave me waaay more checks than just the ones you mentioned. I'm thinking the issue might be that my times are off for the guilds... I'm feeling terribly slow myself at the moment. XD

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It could be that you're seeing something that I missed, of course! And it is best not to make assumptions with logic grids - nearly every time I've done that I ended up being wrong. It's better to go through clue by clue and eliminate possibilities fastidiously until there's only one answer left. No one should feel slow for having a difficult time with this (especially since we are either still missing a slot from each category or August 13th's clue is misusing the word 'neither'). Logic puzzles are meant to be challenging - otherwise they aren't much of a puzzle!

 

EDIT: I should confess that after filling out the grid as far as I can, I totally made the assumption that August 13's clue is misworded, so I guess maybe you should take my advice with a grain of salt, haha!

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I actually do a lot of logic puzzles, which is why I'm all kerfluffled at things not going so smoothly with this one.

 

Also, today's clue just revealed a new guild so. There's that bit of joy. A bunch of my checks just turned into question marks.

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So the new clue came out and now it looks like there might be six things in each group of columns then??! I think at this point, I'm just going to wait for all the clues to come out before I solve. I don't want to jump to any conclusions just yet.

 

CLUE:
The Hand of the Anubis committed the theft one hour after the guild that used a disguise.
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I think my head just exploded. If there's a new guild, then it stands to reason that there will be a new time of night (probably "4 AM" to fill in the missing hole between 3 and 5), a new method of being a thief ("magic scroll of teleportation" anyone?), and a new item to be pilfered ("our sanity" would fit nicely). Well played, TNT. That was low down and sneaky to leave it to this late in the game. Arrgggh.

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I have twenty green checks on my grid (but then I play a LOT of logic puzzles). Try carefully reading the clues that say "Of GUILD and METHOD, one is TIME and the other is ITEM" (or however it's arranged). The guild and method in that example can only be either that time OR the item, so if the item listed has another time that has an X, then the guild and method listed also can't possibly be that time either (and vice versa if the time listed has a different item that it can't be). This also works in reverse - the time and item listed in that example can ONLY be the guild or method listed, so use the same technique there and you should be able to get more green checks on your grid. Hopefully this makes sense to you and isn't too convoluted, haha!

 

 

I just reset my grid again. I'm just going to wait now until TNT said they're going to stop releasing clues before doing this puzzle. Honestly, I'm doing the clues with probability trees like wayyyyyy back from things I learned back in secondary school. (Let it be known I despise maths). Hopefully that will help eliminate clues as I go through.

 

When does this event end/clues come out? Because I'd really like to solve this with all of the information known. It's not that I don't like logic puzzles, I find them rather fun, but I am frustrated with the speed of the clues. I have too many open-ended things and I do not like that. At. All.

*grumbles*

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The dictionaries for the NC portion of the event go off sale on August 24 if that helps anyone.

 

Since they don't seem to do anything beside get you NC items, I've decided to avoid them completely and try to discourage the buying of NC items altogether. Don't get me wrong, I've bought more NC stuff than I care to admit, but if we all stop buying it for events, maybe TNT will get the message that they're linking too many things on Neo to buying NC items and spending more money than we can afford just to play a "free game".

 

If I'm wrong and there are more clues available because you read all the scrolls, then I'm going to be one very unhappy camper. I've already blown 50% of my Neo money for this month on the MME. *sigh*

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Since they don't seem to do anything beside get you NC items, I've decided to avoid them completely and try to discourage the buying of NC items altogether. Don't get me wrong, I've bought more NC stuff than I care to admit, but if we all stop buying it for events, maybe TNT will get the message that they're linking too many things on Neo to buying NC items and spending more money than we can afford just to play a "free game".

 

If I'm wrong and there are more clues available because you read all the scrolls, then I'm going to be one very unhappy camper. I've already blown 50% of my Neo money for this month on the MME. *sigh*

I don't think there will be more clues from getting the NC items - for one thing, there's only so many clues that one needs in order to fill the grid out, so giving NC buyers more clues would either mean they were withholding vital information from the other players or they would be giving NC buyers more information than they actually need, which might make the puzzle slightly easier to solve but would still be unnecessary and kind of useless.

 

Also I would like to apologize to anyone I steered wrong with my previous "you should have this many check marks" comments. Someone had said that the scrolls would stop being available sometime this week, and not only did I not bother to verify the information, but I also assumed that the clues would stop being given out around the same time, which influenced how I filled out the grid. Filling it out again with the new information changed several of my answers, so I'm not going to make any more comments about what you should have filled out or not. Hopefully what I said didn't throw too many people off.

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I was also assuming that the event (or at least this portion) would end around the same time that the NC dictionaries stopped being available. Not that they'd get any bonuses as far as clues went. But then what slavecrown mentioned might be true and it might keep going past that.

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I think my head just exploded. If there's a new guild, then it stands to reason that there will be a new time of night (probably "4 AM" to fill in the missing hole between 3 and 5), a new method of being a thief ("magic scroll of teleportation" anyone?), and a new item to be pilfered ("our sanity" would fit nicely). Well played, TNT. That was low down and sneaky to leave it to this late in the game. Arrgggh.

 

You know, I'm honestly thinking TNT hadn't planned for this, and actually decided to add more stuff now after they messed up with clue 6. I just can't imagine them being SO clever and sneaky. Lolz.

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Yay for being correct about there being 6 items. I got my grid filled most of the way out again, but since I'm using JN's, I had to assume the last time was 4am (a rather silly assumption at this point, but since that's the way their grid was set up...). If it's not, I'll of course have to start over again, but I'm okay with that.

 

If I were designing a grid for people, I'd have put 7 rows, let them set their own column and row labels (locking the appropriate columns/rows together, of course), and allowed a few save points (maybe 2-3) to allow easier testing of hypotheses. But it was very nice of them to create any grid at all for us to use and save -- sure beats me drawing it out by hand each time. (I wish I had just not assumed TNT made a mistake and hadn't wasted my hand-drawn one on that assumption...)

 

P.S. I seriously doubt TNT added "extra clues" to cover their mistake. Some of the clues seemed to give redundant info if bribing was at 3am; now they don't. In addition, you kind of have to write all the clues at once, work back and forth adjusting the info given in each -- I'm sure it takes a decent amount of revision to give the necessary and sufficient information to solve it while still remaining challenging, so they would have finished the entire set before revealing any.

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P.S. I seriously doubt TNT added "extra clues" to cover their mistake. Some of the clues seemed to give redundant info if bribing was at 3am; now they don't. In addition, you kind of have to write all the clues at once, work back and forth adjusting the info given in each -- I'm sure it takes a decent amount of revision to give the necessary and sufficient information to solve it while still remaining challenging, so they would have finished the entire set before revealing any.

 

Yeah, you're probably right... Especially because we did have an empty time slot all the time and it was weird. Anyways. Sneaky, sneaky TNT! I'm just glad they shut up all the people on the boards who were saying they had completed their grids perfectly, no problems, no issues, because they were oh-so-clever. HA! :geeky_evil:

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If you don't assume the last time is 4am, I don't think you'll have very many checks (and that's a very dubious assumption, so not making it is actually pretty smart). I went ahead and made that assumption since the JN grid was set up for it, and I have 1 item matched with a guild, 4 times matched with a guild, 1 method matched with a guild, 3 items matched with a method, 2 methods matched with a time, and 2 times matched with an item. It might be possible to solve more; I ran out of time this morning to quadruple-check.

 

If you got stuck, reread each clue taking into account what you already know, and see if the combined info can help you eliminate anything else. I ended up solving both of the "of guild who x and guild who y, one is guild z, and the other is guild a" (one contradiction took a while, and it was due to one of the timing clues), as well as one of the "1 hour before clues." See the previous page for some hints, guides, etc.

 

The real trick to solving logic puzzles is perseverence. Every time you add info from one of the clues, it could potentially give you additional info that makes another clue solvable. It helps to print out the clues (or write them in shorthand on paper) and check off the ones you've already solved so you don't have to look at them any more, and then go through the rest 1 by 1, adding as much info as you can. And once you add info, you have to go back through every single other clue again. And again. Once that doesn't reveal anything, try the what-if game on one of the clues (as I described earlier) and search for contradictions (you can only eliminate options, not confirm options with the what-if game -- but if you eliminate all but 1, you've found the right answer by process of elimination).

 

Edit: With today's clues, I have all guilds matched with times, and I only need to match 2 guilds with 2 methods and to match 2 other methods with 2 items, and then I should be able to fill in the rest of the grid. Again, if anyone gets really stuck, feel free to PM me with your current grid, and I'll check to make sure you didn't make any mistakes and tell you which clue(s) to reexamine to make some more progress.

Edited by siniri
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I have reached the same point as you Siniri (having 22 checks and 28 white cells remaining).

 

Depending on how the clues are written, it may take one or two clues to solve this puzzle. However, knowing TNT, we might wait until last day of this event.

 

Today's clue was really helpful in naming each row and column of the grid. At least we don't have a theft before midnight. It would have been awful...

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